Building a legacy, leading with empathy and purpose at Property Tectonics – Esther Brady

Episode 6: Workplace Confidence Podcast
Where people professionals share the great work they do

In this episode, Esther Brady, Managing Director of Property Tectonics, a property and construction consultancy known for blending professional services with innovative software solutions.

Esther shares her journey from working on reception to leading the company, highlighting how her unconventional path and commitment to servant leadership have shaped her approach to business and people management...

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Workplace Confidence PodcastListen to all episodes

Esther talks about the unexpected challenges she faced when her father, the company founder, passed away, thrusting her into the role of MD amidst personal grief and a shifting business landscape. She reflects on how these experiences boosted her confidence, driving her to lead with empathy, foster a strong workplace culture and ensure her team feels valued and supported.

Throughout the conversation, Esther and Penny explore the importance of purpose in business, especially for the younger generation and how Property Tectonics’ credo - delighting customers, making money, being commercial and being good citizen - guides their operations. Esther emphasises the value of nurturing a positive culture, having frank conversations, and staying grounded through personal connections and family.

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Transcript: Esther Brady, Managing Director of Property Tectonics

Esther Brady (04:53)
I did very disastrously do a year at Nottingham Trent to be a surveyor. I should mention that the business was founded by my dad. So it was very much like he finished a rail level. Surveying is a very good profession. Why do you go and do that? So, you know, I just wanted to go to university. It was kind of like, all right, then I'll give it a go. He did have the right idea that it was a vocational degree. So there was wisdom in

that but I just spent a lot of time going to parties and not doing much else so that was a disaster.

P.H (05:35)
doing the surveying that you were meant to be there for.

Esther Brady (05:37)
Absolutely, it wasn't for me at all. So eventually I did a degree that I wanted to do which was fashion and marketing. Not at all related to technology or the built environment but I suppose what was really good was the marketing aspect of it. But my journey in property tectonics started again because my dad was a bit of a slave driver really and I finished my finals and he said right you're not bumming around there's going to be no

gap year. I need somebody on reception to answer the phone and open the post and that's what I did and 24 years later I'm now running the company.

P.H (06:18)
Tell me about that moment then when you got asked to come back or pretty much instructed to come, that's a parent question isn't it? You're gonna come back aren't you? What was that feeling? Was it a sense of wasted time doing fashion and marketing or a frustration there that you couldn't pursue what you'd educated yourself about? And how did you see that moment?

Esther Brady (06:24)
Yeah. Yes.

Yeah!

Well, I saw that moment really as, okay, I need to earn money. I'd gone to university a little bit later because I'd had that disastrous non -start with surveying. And the thing with fashion and marketing, it was, I suppose in a way kind of...

media based role so I got offered a job as a stylist on this morning when it was still Richard and Judy but it was a runners it was for it was for nothing and so the editor said look I can give you a bit of money it was in London I thought I don't want to spend another year being skint you know my dad

both my parents said, look, we'll just treat it as another year at university if you want to and we'll help fund you, which was a great offer. It's like, it's sort of moving doors. It's that rotating doors moment, isn't it? But I decided, no, I want to stay in Manchester and I want to, I'm going to work here and maybe find something more local and do it, but I never did. But what the timing was so good, because at the time, this is 2000, when I graduated, professional services didn't have any

sort of what's the word

they didn't have any function for marketing and business development because it was professional services. So if you think about it, at the time the internet wasn't really, it was just coming on. I mean, the time I did my degree, the only retailer to have a website was The Gap. So we were really at that early stages. And I think it was the vision of my dad who thought, you know what, if it's good enough for retailers, why can't professional services do it? There was a snobbery. Well, we're professional services. People will always use our services. We don't need to market.

That's a dirty word. So the vision from my dad for the business was, well, I think we should market. I think we should promote ourselves and get business. So because I'd had that background in that degree, he said, well, why don't you start being a marketing coordinator? Let's get a website for the business. Let's start promoting ourselves. And that appealed to my creativity. That sated me. And I had a blank piece of paper. I had no boss apart from my dad.

there wasn't an established market, an established marketing department, so I thought well actually this is a really good opportunity and I'm up for it and that's how it began really. It did, it did.

P.H (09:02)
So it hooked you in. So did you work your way up to the top? How has it worked for you and how come you're the managing director now?

Esther Brady (09:11)
I definitely had to work my way up to the top, which I'm very thankful for now. I think the last 24 years has been, well...

starting on reception, opening people's posts, doing copy typing, answering the phone. And there's still people that I work with today that have seen that journey with me as well. And I think it has created, not only do I know what everybody's job is, apart from the surveying and the software development, there isn't anything that I haven't done, so I really understand the business. And I also understand the progression through the business and what that development looks like.

which gives me great empathy for people coming in at entry levels. And you know, nepotism is not a wonderful thing. I was given a harder time than anybody else and had to prove myself. And invariably you do get people that go, she's only here because she's the boss's daughter. And you know, again, I suppose it's my dad's wisdom. He was aware of that and made me struggle through it. There was no favors, you know, okay, you're gonna have to just toughen up. This is the real world.

and I think that's why I'm in part able to run the business today.

P.H (10:28)
So your dad died 18 months, two years ago? Three years ago. And that was a sudden departure, wasn't it, on his part, which landed you the role, suddenly, and in a moment of grief, moment of grief, you know, a time of grief. How did you cope with that?

Esther Brady (10:29)
He did. It's three years ago. Yeah. Yeah.

Very nice.

That has been one of the biggest lessons and has really shaped my confidence in the workplace.

because the succession plan was always for me to run the business one day. My dad was only 70 when he died, but I had been saying to him, look, there is gonna become a day where I'm gonna be on my own. But very typically, very typical of an entrepreneur, I'm never gonna die. That's not gonna happen anytime soon. I wanted still to have that control. And I was like, well, I wanna just kind of have you in the background whilst I do it.

So I was hungry to do it whilst he was still here. That didn't happen. So it was very unexpected. And I found myself, my dad died on a Sunday evening and at 5am on Monday morning I'm having to call an extraordinary board meeting and to tell staff.

And there was, I remember not sleeping that night, because I thought, right, okay, apart from the group, I had to really compartmentalize it. So I thought, well, there's people's jobs and a really good business. We're coming out of COVID. There was so many challenges. And I thought, well, it's do or die. I thought, I can only have a go. I can just crumble and...

not carry on and I think that would have probably been fine. It would have been understandable. Or I can take what I'd learned over the last 21 years and build on an amazing business, an amazing legacy and run with it. And that's what I did. So to get that level of confidence doesn't happen overnight.

You've really got to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and, you know, I think...

I think being faced in that situation with that challenge and just going for it, if nothing else ever boosts your confidence, a situation like that will.

P.H (12:57)
How did it boost your confidence and not steal your confidence? Because it could have easily done. I mean, you rose to the challenge and with hindsight, yes, it's transformed you. I'm guessing it's transformed you, it sounds like it has. But it could have easily kicked you in the butt, couldn't it?

Esther Brady (13:19)
Yeah, definitely, and I think sometimes it did. I very quickly learned or realized that I was only gonna do it one day at a time, and it's that proverbial elephant. I thought, well, I can't shove the whole thing in my mouth and eat it all at once. I'm just gonna have to tackle what is in front of me. There was a lot of kind of stuff just to deal with outside of running the business, just trying to get that change, because we were coming back out of a lockdown as well.

we were coming through great change because of what COVID did and the pandemic did and a lot of our work dropped off. So the business at that point was really kind of like, well, what does the future hold for it? And then what does the future hold for the business without my dad? So that was a huge...

kind of oncoming train to look at. And I thought, well, I'm just gonna have to do it one step at a time. And I think that is how it didn't knock my confidence because I had the, thank goodness, I had the wherewithal to think, well, I'm not gonna be able to do it all at once and there's gonna be bad days and there's gonna be good days.

P.H (14:26)
Tell me about the people function at Property Tectonics then. You're a staff of about 30 people, lots of brains, lots of different types of background for people and skill set. How do you, who looks after them? How do you motivate them? How do you keep them on? How does it all work in a small business like yours?

Esther Brady (14:33)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, I do very much see it as I'm the head of HR, being a small company. My finance director looks after the onboarding things and the paperwork and stuff, but I think from a HR, facilitating HR to look after people is very much my job.

I think the key to my leadership in the business is very much based on a servant leadership perspective. We have a really good staff retention. We've got people here, you know, I've been here 24 years. All of our board of directors bar one started off as graduates in the business. Our principal surveyor came here as a gap year student, then came as a graduate, then got professionally qualified.

So I like to call it homegrown talent. We're very niche in what we do, particularly in the software and the data analytics. So I think the key behind HR, human resources, whatever, is actually just looking after people. And I think it's being empathetic. And I think it's more about wanting people to develop. And we're all always up for that. We want to make sure that people are

having intrinsic value in what they do as well as extrinsic value. And if that means that they have to then leave because they've found a newfound skill that they didn't know they had until they worked here, then that's all good, but hopefully they do want to stay and it's taking care of their personal development aspirations. So that is.

P.H (16:29)
Are you seeing differences in the way that people come to you? Let me start that again. Have you got any, start that again. This is about generations. So you've got lots of people who have been around since they were young. What about the new youngsters coming in? Are you noticing a difference in how they want to work and how they're motivated? Any observations there?

Esther Brady (16:48)
Yep.

Yeah, we've got a few, I mean we've grown, the staff team has increased by 36 % in the last three years. So it is something that's very much on my radar at the moment and how we...

Hehehe

I suppose how we show them that we're committed to their personal development. And what I haven't seen any difference, I think people are more inclined than ever to want to stay somewhere, to want to develop a career. I know you sort of see that they're kind of millennials, they like to go from job to job to job, and that's what it's all about. I do think there is a shift that people are looking for security, they're looking for personal growth, and I think they want to be in a firm that's going to offer them.

that you know and I'm interviewing people and I'm kind of

You know, my opening gambit is always like, look, you know, what are your plans? What are your personal aspirations? And let's see if that fits with what we're about. We're very, very passionate about keeping our staff. We don't want people coming in and out. Because we're so niche, we put a lot of investment into people. And in order to have that homegrown talent, you know, you can't have, it's not every two years we're getting a new change of team.

P.H (18:17)
I've heard, read, picked up that younger people are very keen on purpose. In fact, increasingly, I think all of us are keen on purpose and having a more meaningful life. The church and state are not quite what it used to be. People are looking to institutions for answers, although there's a trust issue. I think there's a role for purpose to play in a small business. Have you focused on that at all? Have you made it...

Esther Brady (18:22)
Yes. Yeah.

P.H (18:45)
a marker for everyone to lean towards, how do you go about communicating it? Have you never thought about it?

Esther Brady (18:50)
So ready.

No, we have. That's a really good point and something that I'm doing some work with now. We're going to have a staff conference in September just because we've got so many new people and it's about making sure that we're sharing that vision and that we really know the shape of our culture because I think so often in an SME you can be head down, bottom up and then before you know it your culture's in the bin. You know, it needs to be nurtured, it needs to be curated, it needs

a lot of focus on it. And I think, you know, I was very head down, bottom up for the last three years, flying by the seat of my pants type of thing. Now I'm getting to that point where I really want to say, okay, let's look, we've got 36 % newbies in the building. Do they know? Are they buying into the culture? Are they a PTA, which we kind of say it's a little bit trite, but you know, it's part of that family, that ethos of what the business is about.

P.H (19:49)
Just describe that then Esther, what is the ethos and the purpose and the vision and the culture that you mentioned? What is that? Can you describe it?

Esther Brady (19:57)
Yeah, I think so. Well, we have a credo of the business, which is to delight customers, make money, be commercial, and be good citizens. And that hasn't changed, and I was looking to see if we should change that.

if it was still fit for purpose, you know, 37 years on after it was first established. And I think it is. I think it covers the culture of an organisation. I think it covers the culture of a community and very much what we do. And you mentioned about the shared vision.

you know, the extrinsic motivators, salary, benefits, they can get that, anybody can get that anywhere. You know, you're gonna get paid to do a job. And benefits and perks, and I think that has its place. But what I really want to get across is how we play our part in delighting customers and making money and being good citizens with the intrinsic elements of our job. And we're making differences to

We're making difference for children in their school environment and ultimately with our social housing providers we've got a part in improving people's homes. Now it's a very small cog in a massive machine, we're just one small part of it, but when if you think of the data analysts that are just looking at rows and rows and rows of data, I can imagine, although they love it, actually we're looking at this because what's ultimately going to happen at the other side of this

is the decisions are going to be made on the back of that data to improve people's homes. And if that isn't the vision, you know, I want to make sure that that is the vision of what we do, what difference your job makes every day is improving lives in a very tangible way. And I think that gets lost and I think that's my job to make sure that, you know, people are contributing in a very real way to other people's lives.

P.H (22:02)
Do you know what? I think that it's just lit you up that question, hasn't it? And that answer. I can kind of sense that that absolutely thrills you. You and I worked together at the, you know, about six months ago, I was hosting your conference for social housing customers, essentially, wasn't it? And what I picked up on there was there's so much pressure on your customers to...

Esther Brady (22:12)
It does.

Yes.

P.H (22:30)
pick up on latest regulatory changes, which are vast, called the golden thread, where people even have to make a note of what screws and nails and rivets they've used in a wall stud, in a home, in a block of flats, and there's high rise and low rise. It's hugely complicated. So I'm guessing that supporting those customers with those changes is part of that delighting customers. But that's a lot of work and a lot of stuff to keep on top of.

P.H (22:39)
you

Mm.

P.H (23:00)
and you're hiring all of these wonderful new people you hope, how do you find time for the HR people function? Is it just something that you, or would you make time for it, or is it just something that happens all the time for you?

Esther Brady (23:14)
I've had to make time for it. I have to be, for want of a better word, very intentional about it because the day -to -day stuff that lands on your desk as a managing director needs dealing with. The business still needs to run. But to be, I don't know, to sort of just leave it to itself, that's where the culture's gonna end up in the bin. Like I said, it really needs to be nurtured. So it's equally as important that I focus on that, and that is something that I've

the realization really over the last six months when I've had time to take a breath and have a look around. And I think it's important because you're never gonna get that delight customers will make money or be good citizens. If there is no focus, it's a bit like neglecting people's wellbeing. And I really dislike the kind of business to business term. It's just always people to people. And I think you might have seen at the conference that

our customers are friends. Some aren't, you know, it depends how we work with our customers. Like we don't have a massive churn of staff, we don't have a huge churn of customers. And I think because most of the people, if not all of the people in the business, they hold that credo because that's how they're treated in the workplace. You know yourself, you know, we're all consumers in one shape or another and you can tell when somebody really doesn't like their job and you think, ooh, they're

P.H (24:44)
How can you tell?

Esther Brady (24:44)
They're not happy in the work. I think, you know, you can hear a smile. So you know a conversation on the phone. You know if somebody's having a bad day or a good day. And you just think, if that kind of interaction with that same organization keeps happening, you do start to think, hmm, I don't think perhaps that's a very good place to work because every time I speak to somebody from that place, they're not very happy. And I think that thought therefore, that is my job to make sure that everybody's happy, that they're

that they feel that purpose, that they feel looked after, that they've got that job security. You know, I was having a discussion with somebody who said, it's okay for you, we have just volunteers, you pay your people. And I was like, well, we might pay them, but they're still volunteers because they could just get up and walk out at any time.

Nobody, just by paying them doesn't mean they're guaranteed to stay with you. So, you know, we have to look after people, just the same as if we weren't paying them, basically. Just, you know, people say the volunteer market is so much harder, but it isn't, it's just the same.

P.H (25:50)
Do you intentionally set time aside for this? What do you do with that time? Do you walk the floor? Do you do MS Teams calls with individuals and check in? Do you chat culture and purpose more often? I mean, what do you do with your time in order to secure this culture and keep your volunteers, your paid volunteers in the nest, in the fold?

Esther Brady (25:53)
Yes.

Just a lot of walking around, like you say, how you getting on today, because we're small, it's easy. Everybody, I'm looking at everybody now in our open plan office, and so I've got access to them and they've got access to me, more importantly. It's not hierarchical, I think it's about being a bit vulnerable. So at the conference, for example, that you were at, I gave a kind of rallying email the night before, and openly said, I'm a little bit nervous myself. It's just being human.

and talking to people and I spend a lot of time making sure that people know they're doing a good job. I do...

like to think that I am vulnerable to sort of say to them, you know, I couldn't do this without you because genuinely I couldn't. We are a team. And the feedback that I get from people is that a lot of people talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk. And they do feel valued here. And they do feel that it is a nice flat management. There's no, you know, hierarchy of people sort of rating people for underperformance or things like that. And everybody has a

bad day, you know, when we address those issues and it's about having frank conversations, you know, I'm not saying that, you know, it's all Disney and flowers.

P.H (27:35)
Well, I was going to ask you about that actually, because everyone sounds, the way you're talking about it, and you're obviously enjoying what you do, and you love the people, and you've known them for a very long time, a lot of them. And it does all sound quite idyllic. Frank conversations, crucial conversations, sometimes known as difficult conversations. How do people who rub along so nicely most of the time actually stomach taking on harder conversations that maybe isn't so friendly?

Esther Brady (27:44)
Mmm.

That's one of my biggest challenges.

I don't think it's unkind to say that the types of professionals we've got here are not the best at communicating. And I've found that half of the problems that lead up to difficult conversations is because there has been a lack of communication. And that's one of the focuses for our staff conference this year is about how to communicate. I think a lot of frank conversations might be avoided had more conversations.

gone on before that. But frank conversations, I think if you're vulnerable, if you're authentic, then people know that they can trust you and that if you need to have those difficult conversations, it's because it's necessary. You know, it's like any family, I suppose. You know, it's not all sweet as it might... No, I haven't. Do you, do you?

P.H (28:54)
not mine.

We'd just get a brush and sweep it under the carpet and keep smiling and waving and hopefully no one's that bitter. But yes.

Esther Brady (29:05)
Yeah, I'm a complete opposite. I'm a complete opposite to that. In fact, maybe to my detriment, I do like this expression of things need to come out into the light. You know, I think things that are left unsaid fester and grow. And I know it's not for everybody and people kind of squirm when I'm thinking, right, we need to have a conversation about this. But invariably, nine times out of 10, it's always better.

P.H (29:32)
Okay, so let's say property tectonics or PT grows by another 36 % over the next three years and then another 36 % and so on. How are you going to get a grip on culture? Are you going to get a grip on culture or are you going to leave it a bit more to chance? How would that feel for you as well?

Esther Brady (29:52)
I absolutely wouldn't leave it to chance. I think the secret of our success is the culture. I do think that it is a huge part of how we've grown over the last three years, considering that this has been a real test of our business's metal. Because my dad dying, me taking over the business, we were coming out of a pandemic, we were still in sort of a quasi lockdown situation.

And I honestly believe that had we not got that culture that it's almost that blitz mentality. Everybody really pulled together. And that has been a huge lesson for me over the last three years because I've really sort of looked out and thought, my gosh, I have got a wonderful team, a really good team. And when, you know, the rubber hits the tarmac, everybody really pulled together. You know, we, I couldn't have done it without them. And so I want to bottle that.

I definitely don't want to lose it. And now we are growing big and I'm seeing that there's new people and I've suddenly thought, well, I'm taking it for granted a little bit. And I think that's the danger point, which is why we're having a staff conference. And if we were to grow, in answer to your question, and I hope we do, I would love to have a sort of culture department, you know, just have somebody dedicated to doing it with me. And at the minute it's external help and I have a consultant, kind of a business.

coach that helps me and she focuses on people development and how that looks like. So we're doing it bit by bit and in proportion to the size of our business and hopefully we'll be able to expand that but I would never ever take it for granted and I would never think it's not important anymore.

P.H (31:43)
So tell me about the confidence in your workplace then. I imagine that people with certificates, that they are surveyors and people who've got experience in technology are quite confident in the work they do. How else does confidence show up at your place or sometimes when it doesn't? Can you describe it?

Esther Brady (32:06)
Yeah, I think they're confident in what they do, but if you push them outside of that comfort zone, that is when the confidence is lacking. So thinking about our customer conference, you know, as soon as I mentioned it, it was all the surveyors and all the software engineers who immediately emailed me and went, you don't want me to speak to you. You know, so it's a confidence on a different level. If they're happy in their comfort zone and they're brilliant at what they do, but

But this is the development that I like to do with people because it's growing their confidence outside of their expertise, if you like. And again, it comes down to communication.

That's where the confidence lacks is in communicating what they do and communicating even to customers. It doesn't have to be on a stage and doing a presentation. So that's a real challenge and encouraging people that they can do it and they've got something interesting to say.

P.H (33:08)
and encouraging vulnerability and that takes confidence as well to be vulnerable I think.

Esther Brady (33:13)
Yeah, yeah. Which is why I like the idea of that servant leadership because it starts with my vulnerability and it starts with me being authentic. And I think, you know, sometimes if people say, it's all right for you, Esther, you know, you don't mind doing presentations and you're good at it. And it's like, well, I haven't always been and I always get nervous. You know, and then they're quite surprised to hear that. It seems a bit like they weren't expecting me to say, you know,

Well actually I always get nervous and I've had some real mess ups, you know, and it's just experience, you've just got to do it and you get better and you're always learning. So that's what I mean when it starts with me sort of saying, look I don't have it all together, nobody does, but we can encourage one another.

Esther Brady (34:04)
Yeah, and getting out from the idea that you've got to display confidence in order to be a corporate member of the team and this is what we do as a leader and don't follow me or not or don't, you know, and that, it sounds like you've got a really nice mix of your own vulnerability as a role model in order to help other people display their own challenges. I just think that's a great way of approaching it. And you sound like a natural people leader to me.

Esther Brady (34:17)
Yeah.

P.H (34:34)
Esther, I've seen you in action. And when we've spoken, I mean, you're the MD of a large, you know, large SM, I say large SME, but you know, an important SME that's helping so many people, so many customers in important work. When we met, it was to help go through how you might put your customer conference together. And we had a coffee in a hotel in Manchester, opposite Piccadilly Station. And I remember you saying to me,

nervous, I'm having sleepless nights. The experience of running that conference has given you confidence, I hope, and seeing how it could go and actually, you know, at the end of the day, what's the worst that will happen sort of thing. Tell me about your own personal journey and confidence though overall.

P.H (35:24)
Yeah, I was really nervous about that conference, which is why I came to you, because I thought that is part of the learning process. If you don't know it, there is somebody that can help you. The three things that I was thinking about, the three key things for my confidence is to plan, prep, and persevere. So I know my Achilles heel, if you like. If I don't plan things, if I don't prepare, then I'm probably not

not going to be very confident at the point I need to be. But some things happen, you know, no matter how planned and how prepared you can be, it can still go wrong. And that's where the perseverance comes in and just go to know what, okay, I've had a bad day at the office, learn from it and just keep going. But yeah, that conference was a biggie for me because we hadn't had one for so many years. The conference had always been about, well not always been about, but my dad had been very much front and center

He was a big character, but he was technical. The software was his brainchild and obviously he was a chartered building surveyor. And I'm none of those things. So in the run up to the conference, I did think, actually I feel a bit of a fraud here because are they gonna want it? They're gonna sort of say, well, what do you know?

P.H (36:45)
What was your role when your dad died? Where did you move from?

Esther Brady (36:49)
I was a director of the software business unit. Yeah, so I had moved up to direct level and I was running a business unit. And I think, you know, that's something that my dad always said, you know, actually he got down in the weeds a bit too much and people who are not technical but can run a business and manage people, it doesn't matter what the industry is. Yes, this is niche, but I've got 24 years of experience under my belt, so it's not like I don't know anything.

But yeah, that conference was a huge milestone for me. And so I thought, well, I can't do it on my own. And that's the other thing, it's being able to, you know, go to, I went to you as the expert and said, look, I don't know what I'm doing. Can you help me? You know, this is what I would like to do. So it's always been having that acknowledgement that you don't need to do it by yourself. And if you...

don't know everything and you need some outside advice, go and get it. It's not a bad thing if you admit that actually I'm gonna need a bit of professional help with this because I'm a bit out of my depth.

P.H (37:57)
What would you say your confidence was now, Esther? You know, you've grown the business, you've got more bums on seats, no disrespect, more bums on seats, and you seem lit up about and fired up about your business and the people in it. Where would you say your confidence was now and how is it gonna take you forward?

Esther Brady (38:20)
I would say that my confidence has obviously just grown so much. If somebody had said to me, here's a crystal ball and this is what the next three years of your life is gonna look like, I think it would have run in the opposite direction. That would have terrified me. I think being in the moment helps. It's just like I said to you earlier, it's just going, okay, this is where I'm at. I can freeze or run away.

or just get on with it, but one step at a time. And I think having to deal with the challenges that I've dealt with over the last three years, there is a part of me that just goes, wow, I did that. And it's encouraging to yourself. And acknowledging that and sort of saying, I didn't get it all right, I'm still learning. Some days, I still think I have no idea how I'm gonna get through today

you're faced with stuff that you've never been faced with before. But it's pulling on those resources of what's happened in the past and just going, no, you didn't fall over when that happened. You kept going. Do it again. Keep doing it again. Persevere.

P.H (39:37)
Do you take time to reflect? What are your hallmarks of, or what are the non -negotiables that you need every week in order to be a great MD that keeps your, you know, what's the oxygen mask for you? What's it made up of?

Esther Brady (39:55)
Rose?

P.H (39:57)
Rosé. Yeah, that's a way of reflecting, isn't it, for about five minutes, yeah.

Esther Brady (40:00)
Yeah, no, my non -negotiables are, and it sounds a bit, I don't know, little house on the prairie, but as long as I can be home and cook tea for my boys, that is a non -negotiable for me. It just grounds me. It reminds me that I am a mum of two young boys and there is more to life than just the nine to five and the business. And also it's a reminder of what we're doing it for. My eldest boy has just got senior

prefect at high school is going into year 11 and he had to put an example of a leader that he finds inspiring and he put me. I know. I was... I know!

PP.H (40:42)
Barack Obama's got nothing on you, do you know what I mean?

Esther Brady (40:45)
But the reason he put me is that he said that the example that he'd learned from me when his granddad died and I just kept going and I thought, do you know what, these boys and they're boys as well, so you know, like they're just teenagers, they just grunt at you. I thought it's really important that they see that I'm still their mum and you don't know they're watching. You know, I had no idea that would even resonate with him, let alone for him to put it down.

P.H (41:12)
That's the creepy thing about kids, isn't it? They kind of watch you all the time. They soak it up.

Esther Brady (41:16)
I know, I know. So it was delightful to read, but at the same time, yeah, a little bit scary, because I thought, my gosh, they do actually pay attention to what's going on. So yeah, I have to sort of make sure that I'm home and grounded for them and listen to how their day's been and then go back at it the next day.

P.H (41:35)
Esther Brady, thank you very much.